Doubting Bro

Joined

• started 10 topics
• posted 2,130 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Doubting Bro

• 
  22

  Je suis le percepteur! (French tax on WTS)

  by ezekiel3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  from the official news site for jws (http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=/region/europe/france/english/releases/religious_freedom/fra_e041006.htm) .

  notice the highlight, i wonder why this factoid was included??.

  french high court confirms 60-percent confiscatory tax measure on religious donations.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Does anyone know whatever happened on appeal to the EU courts?
• 
  15

  What a New C.O. Arrangement Might Do

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  firstly, laying off c.o.

  's would not solve the problem of appointing elders by agreement of the governing body.

  as long as they are appointed remotely, these elders could be looked upon as agents of the watchtower society.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Jeff - I believe you're correct. All the local parishes belong to a diocese. Several of the dioceses have had serious financial issues stemming from paying the child abuse settlements. A few have even filed bankruptcy (Spokane, San Diego,and Oregon just to name a few from a goggle search). BUT, however the Catholic church has it set up, its done in a way to protect the Vatican. In my opinion, I could see the WT reorganizing in a way similar to how the RCC is set up. Not being Catholic, I get the sense that the Vatican still exercises a large amount of control over the church (unlike say the Baptists that are decentralized). In many ways, I see the WT as a want-to-be RCC (pope=GB, all the layers of hierarchy, DFing - an extreme version of excommunication, confession, etc) so they really should copy their set-up if they want to protect themselves from liability.
• 
  15

  What a New C.O. Arrangement Might Do

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  firstly, laying off c.o.

  's would not solve the problem of appointing elders by agreement of the governing body.

  as long as they are appointed remotely, these elders could be looked upon as agents of the watchtower society.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Also, remember that many cities have "City Overseers" already - unless this has changed in the last year & a half. In a few cases that I know about, this particular elder has more pull than many of the COs because they develop a good relationship with the branch office. I know one city overseer and I have a pretty limited knowledge of what the job entails. This person is also chair of the HLC but I'm not sure if that's because he's the city overseer or if he just wanted to do it. Not all areas are covered by this arrangement but they could easily expand it. These guys receive no money or other support from the WTS just like someone on the HLC or working in administration at the convention (which this guy does as well).Meta has a good point, since the WTS approves all elders, getting rid of the COs doesn't severe their liability. Sorry about the formatting, I'm using Firefox.
• 
  59

  INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM

  by iloowy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).

  mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?

  original post in spanish .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I distinctly recall a private conversation with a CO who was highly critical of some WTS policies and the general communications between himself & the US branch. I was just becoming "awake" and I was stunned that he was saying such negative things. I didn't have much of a reaction to him because I think he realized from some of my comments that I wasn't a complete believer any longer and quite frankly I was afraid it was a trap. But, at the end of the day, while he & other COs that I've had private conversations with may not be happy with some things, I find it difficult to believe that many would actually leave. Just look at the long time Bethelites that were given the boot. How many have shown up here? How many have faded or DA'ed? At the end of the day, they have some of the same issues leaving that the r&f do, family ties, "friends", etc on top of losing their job. Even if they reduce or eliminate the CO position (which I think is a real possibility due to cost savings/legal issues), these displaced COs are going to be leaning heavily on local congos to provide employment & living arrangements. I have my doubts that these guys would be leading any sort of mass exodus, at least at first. Interesting thread
• 
  40

  Misquotes from the "Reasoning Book" re: Cross (scans included)

  by AlphaOmega in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the "reasoning book" claims that the 1874 edition of the imperial bible dictionary verifies the idea that jesus was crucified on a stake.

  however, when you check the reference with the imperial bible dictionary, you see that it acutally is not as clear cut as that.. as usual, the infamous "..." of the watchtower has been used to edit out any opposing ideas in the source that they cite.. i know that this may have been mentioned before, but the scans of the imperial bible dictionary that are floating around the internet are from later editions, hence the page numbers are not those cited in the reasoning book.. .

  http://i36.tinypic.com/2ilc9cx.jpg.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I never really gave much thought as to how Jesus was executed and generally thought that if you were a Christian, it didn't matter how he died but why. And, given that I was raised a JW, I'm sure I got that idea from the WT. So, why on earth would they dishonestly quote from a source? It seems clear to me once again that they are only interested in attempting to defend their position regardless of the means. And, they want to paint the rest of Christianity as being the anti-Christ. I'm not sure why this pissed me off so badly, but it does. Arrogance and a feeling that no one would ever catch them. If you are teaching "truth" you DON'T mislead. God, at this point I would be shocked if they actually truthfully quoted anyone. Every time I think I've seen it all, a new one pops up. Thanks for the information!
• 
  4

  JWD is a big ol' crutch!!!....and a marriage counseling update

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and thank the great apostagod i found it, cause i was quite crippled and needed crutches.

  waking up messed me up in many ways and has strained my marriage beyond belief as my wife is still a very hard core jw.

  i have used jwd as a support group, and it is very good as that (my shrink said i needed to find one).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  oompa,

  That sounds great. I'm really glad to hear that things are taking a turn for the better. I hear what you're saying about JWD being a crutch. I know there will be other places that will spring up, but just having a spot to vent or listen to others vent about similar issues is a great release.
• 
  10

  Yes I am a real person

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thanks for many posts to my situation.

  yes i am a real person, and if you want to pm me and ask details, i would be happy to give any details you want.

  it is a little disconcerting to read how some doubt i am telling the truth, this is a tough time for me, but i still respect that you need some proof.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  BF,

  OTWO has great advice. You know the rules, use them to your advantage. According to page 119 of the Flock book, "Accusers should be willing to assume their responsibility as was required in Israel". So, you get to hear the specific accusations. Same page, you can present witnesses yourself. That person you spoke with on the phone, she can act as a witness for you. Also, you may want to remind the BOE that you believe this other person is committing the sin of "bearing false witness" and "slander" and the BOE should take action against that person if you are found not guilty.

  The problem I see is that they could probably ask enough people enough leading quesitons to get you on the ever popular "loose conduct". You know how broad that category is and there's probably not a human alive that hasn't done something that fits into the JW loose conduct definition.

  Maintain your innocence and make notes of any breach in procedure. You'll need that for your appeal since these guys are obviously out to get you. Do not admit to anything. It will be used against you.

  Can I ask why these guys are going after you so hot & heavy? Do you have friends on the service desk,DOs, COs that can help you out?

  I understand you don't want to get df'ed because you don't want to lose contact with your family. But, remember, even if you fight this one back, those elders will be gunning for you. I would suggest you move (if possible) as far away as you can and start over.

  I think your story shows how the cult will kill its wounded to make an example of what will happen to anyone that falls out of line. Do you still think the WTS is "Gods channel"? I'm guessing this episode really showed you it isn't.

  I wish the best to you. PM me if you like. I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this BS.
• 
  25

  Is The Borg Losing Money Drastically Or What???

  by cognac in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there has been about 5 trillion talks on donating money.

  never heard so many talks on this before... they have said in talks a few times that when the society charged per mag or whatever, the society got a lot more in donations then they do now and the cost in production has gone up.

  anyone have any feedback on this?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  I still think they have enough real estate that can be liquidated that they'll not run out of money anytime soon. I think they'll just keep decreasing expenses and coast for many years.
• 
  29

  Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Cult?

  by digderidoo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have found these 14 characteristics of a typical cult and below are some questions regarding the behaviour of a cult.

  my personal opinion is that the watchtower society fits into most of these characteristics, with the exception of 1& 14. possibly part of number 10 fits, but not all.

  i feel that all of the questions posed should be asked of jw's and all of the further symptoms apply too.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  This was one of the hardest things for me to admit when I started "waking up". But, if it walks, looks and sounds like a duck....

  I used to think I was half-way intelligent but to realize that I not only fell for a cult, but was a lower level manager for one is quite depressing.
• 
  18

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 08-03-08 WT Study (PROGRESS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments you will not hear at the 08-03-08 wt study (may 15, 2008, pages 21-25 (spiritual progress).

  review comments will be in red.

  wt material from today's wt will be in black.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doubting Bro

  Blondie,

  No additional comments, just a big thank you. Your comments really helped me see the mind control being employed in the WT articles and changed my perspective on all things WT. And this from a person who would spend at least an hour or two getting ready to conduct. Once a person sees how the WT uses the methods you point out to restrict thinking, you can't possibly still believe they are "God's Channel".

  Oh, I do have one comment regarding using Paul's education. OTWO hit it right on the head. The shots at college keep getting more and more insane. Guess what guys? Most JWs are not listening. I still know plenty that are going to college and plenty of parents with kids in elementary school who are saving for college.